... either that, or he's a prime candidate for the loony bin:
Former President Jimmy Carter said Monday that Hamas is prepared to accept the right of Israel to "live as a neighbor next door in peace." [link]
Former President D'jimmi al-Qatar needs to align his mind with what has proven to be reality for almost 40 years - Hamas, Palestine, and the whole Islamic mess over there has never been truthful, has never kept its promises, and will never cease trying to destroy Israel.
Carter is wilfully blind to the lies these terrorists live by, and he is disgracing his former office and the country he once led (which is no surprise; he was a disgracefully inept leader). His anti-semitism is disgusting, and his hatred for the truth is obvious.
I join with Rep Myrick's demand to SecState Condoleeza Rice to revoke this stupid idiot's passport... Frankly, I'd love to revoke his citizenship...
Hi Kat. I wonder if Jesus would be working for peace in the Middle East, even if it meant talking to those he didn't wholly approve of, if it meant a chance of peace?
Israel is not guiltless in all of this, either. They have an occupation of Palestine in which little children are shot and houses (in which people are actually living) are destroyed, daily. I've listened to a former soldier in the Israeli army talk about his experiences. He said the occupation makes them into monsters. He said at first, he shot at the hillside carefully, trying not to hurt anyone. Soon, though, he said it was just a daily "game," shooting into the hillside (where PEOPLE live), and it didn't bother him at all. After his service, he founded a peace organization in Israel, I think it's called "Break the Silence." Is the way they treat the Palestinians "Christian"? I would just like you to really, really think on this issue.
But my main thought is, WWJD? He would be working for peace imho.
WWKD? (Kat) I mean, just consign all Muslims in the region to an endless hell of occupation, death, and oppression? At least Carter sees their pain as well as Israel's.
I think at the least, as a fellow Christian, you should moderate your words (James 3: 8-13) and not call an honorable former President, "a stupid idiot." He served in the military too. Does he not deserve respect?
Posted by: Barbara | April 21, 2008 at 04:21 PM
You know, Barbara, I'm rather curious... Can you tell me where I said or implied that Israel was "guiltless"? All countries and governments have their faults, including Israel.
Instead of playing the "I know you are, but what am I?" game, can you explain to me how any failings of Israel have anything to do with the consistent failure of Palestine to follow through on their "peaceful" promises when Israel has offered concession after concession? (Lovely little attempt at moral equivalence, there, honey.)
Time after time after time, Israel has offered the hand of peace, and Palestine has taken it, yanked Israel closer, and stabbed them in the back. Every single time a "peace accord" has been reached - with all the world except perhaps America demanding that Israel gives up land and control - the Palestinians have broken it.
Every. Single. Time.
When Palestine shows its earnest and honest desire for peace by NOT electing a terrorist organization that calls for the destruction of Israel in its own charter, when they stop sending suicide bombers to kill civilians, when they stop teaching their children that Jews are lying pigs, when they apologize for all the Jewish blood they've spilled... Well, then... THEN I might start giving earnest consideration for the "oppression" they're supposedly suffering.
Would Jesus work for peace? Yes, I suppose He would... But He would also be speaking the Truth - and you would be one of the people who would want to crucify Him all over again because if it.
As for D'jimmi al-Quatar "deserving" my respect, he has not followed through on his honorable service in the military but instead succumbed to the anti-semetic bias which is also contrary to biblical teaching. This man has proven himself, in recent years, to be an enabler of terrorist groups and dictatorships - and if Jesus can call the scribes and Pharisees hypocrites and snakes, then I certainly have the justification to call this man a stupid idiot.
Let me guess, Barbara... You belong to a Methodist, Presbyterian, or Episcopalian church, right? That was a lovely distillation of the liberal, anti-semetic, soi-disant "Christian" non-theology those mainline churches have unfortunately descended to.
While I recognize that Israel is not perfect, I would remind you that God has never rescinded the promise He gave to Abraham and his descendants:
God is not done with His people Israel yet. He shall come for them, He shall save them, and He shall redeem them. And so, while I realize Israel is not perfect, I also recognize that they are still God's chosen people, and you slander and persecute them at your peril.
WWKD? I would encourage and support Israel in its desire to be a free, sovereign, and secure nation, and I would demand that the Islamic government of Palestine renounce their bloody and murderous campaign of terror and attempted genocide of the Jewish state.
And if you don't like that, well, I'm certainly not forcing you to read my blog, am I?
Posted by: Kat | April 21, 2008 at 04:51 PM
Hey Barbara, where is the line between peace and stupidity? And how about the line between government and religion?
After all, you appear to be saying that members of government, as representatives of the people, should do as Jesus would do. Do you really believe that? Because if you do, you're arguing for doing away with the government of America and replacing it with a church. If you're not, then what are you saying about government representatives?
Now if you're claiming that Jimmy Carter is just mediating as a private citizen and not as a government representative, you're either intentionally ignorant or foolish yourself. Carter himself says that he's trying to build the bridges between nations.
As for foolishness versus peace, how many times do you believe a government should trust known liars who kill innocents? No, it's not valid to compare to how many times you should turn the other cheek -- this is governments and nations, not individuals. Should the US government just start surrendering to Hamas and al-queda because it might lead to a momentary illusion of peace? Are you familiar with Hamas? Do you realize that many, many times in the past they have claimed to agree to peace, only to kill more innocent people? How about Oslo? Oslo II? They said they were done killing... only they lied.
And perhaps personally you would allow a rapist into your house again and again, each time thinking that if you allowed him to rape you one more time, he'd leave you alone and it would be peaceful. Maybe the 10th time he would be telling the truth. And heck, even if he weren't, at least you would be pursing peace at all costs.
I would say that Jesus preferred peace -- but it takes two to have peace, not just one. And Jesus never said there should be peace at the cost of innocent lives.
Posted by: Ogre | April 21, 2008 at 05:15 PM
jimmy carter has aligned himself with sworn enemies of the united states. he has gone against the wishes of policy makers on both sides of the aisle for the sake of making this trip to honor dead terrorists like arafat and to brake bread with living ones like Hamas. this is not about peace in the middle east. this is about carter salvaging a ineffective legacy.
Posted by: zoey | April 21, 2008 at 05:20 PM
@ Barbara:
Jimmy Carter, private citizen, went to a country declared by the U.S. to be a source of terrorists organizations and met with the head of such - Hamas. While on foreign soil, this private citizen launched into criticisms of Israel and U.S. policies regarding the blockade in Gaza. He lobbed accusations of starvation and cruelty of the people in Gaza. This is the same Gaza, mind you, from which Israel uprooted settlements and forced their people out of over two years ago.
But the day after Carter's remarks condemning Israel and U.S. policies, the wholesome and pure Hamas "victims" sent suicide bombers to detonate two booby-trapped jeeps at an Israeli border crossing. It was Hamas' most ambitious attempt to target Israelis since Israel's pullout from Gaza in 2005. Hamas said it would carry out more attacks to break the blockade of Gaza, imposed after Hamas' violent takeover of the territory nearly a year ago. Saturday's bombing at Kerem Shalom was the fifth attack on Israelis at Gaza passages since last week. Oh and did I fail to mention that they did this on the day before the Jewish Passover? That's some respect, huh? But for some reason you think that it is justifiable due to some kind of weak moral equivalence argument. They suffer so others should suffer. What's Jesus' take on that?
None of these countries are pure, but when a former U.S. President uses tax payer paid Secret Service to go with him as he meets leaders of a terrorist organization (you know, those peace-advocating suicide bombers), openly criticizes American foreign policy while on foreign soil and then is brazen enough to speak on behalf of Hamas, I say he blew any respect you think he should earn on the basis of the fact he is a Christian or former military. Forgiveness he can have, but he must regain respect. And being the mouthpiece of terrorists isn't winning him any brownie points. There is nothing honorable about his recent actions.
@ Kat:
"if Jesus can call the scribes and Pharisees hypocrites and snakes, then I certainly have the justification to call this man a stupid idiot." WELL SAID!!!
Posted by: Conservative Belle | April 21, 2008 at 05:24 PM
HAMAS are terrorists and murderers. HAMAS' stated goal is the destruction of Israel. Time after time Israel has extended the hand of friendship, and pulled back a bloodied stump.
Arafat was offered a deal that would have given him NINETY FIVE PERCENT of everything they wanted...he walked away and started the next intifada.
Peace overtures have been answered with rocket attacks. Need I remind you that Israel does not get ten year old children top strap bombs to themselves and walk into checkpoints?
Carter is not trying to build bridges (and if you believe that then I have one in Brooklyn that's for sale); he is an appeaser, a fool, an imbecile, a useful idiot of the West who is playing into the hands of terrorists who would as soon kill Americans [or Israelis, or any non-muslim -ed.] as they would anyone else.
HAMAS was offered a peace package and told all they had to do was recognize Israel.They have refused from day one. Had they done so, a lot of the grief of the last year could have been avoided.
Israel has, so often, turned the other cheek that their face is bleeding. Quite frankly, my solution to HAMAS is six tank regiments and a steam roller, followed by demolition teams to turn Gaza into a parking lot.
There is no Palestine.There never has been. It does not exist. It has no flag, it has no currency.
Carter is a modern day Chamberlain, waving his little piece of paper and proclaiming "peace in our time"..whilst rockets whistle overhead into Israeli territory and the shattering BOOM of a suicide vest exploding can be heard in a crowded marketplace.
Carter is an anti-semite, was the worst President in US history, and brings his own "malaise" to Israel, in the guise of "peace."
HAMAS wants peace to come to Israel all right: graves are very peaceful. HAMAS' dream is Israel destroyed and a second Holocaust.
How to deal with HAMAS?
Simple.
You do not argue with a mad dog.
You do not reason with a mad dog.
You do not pat a mad dog.
You take a .45 caliber automatic with hollow point rounds, you put the gun to its head and you blow its brains out.
Problem solved.
[Typos edited, S, as you requested {darn few, honey}. And I must say that I am on board with your solution... Jesus did NOT command us to be doormats, He commands us to stand firmly for the truth. And, sometimes, the truth is that some people "just need killin' " - usually murderers. And Hamas has a long history of murder.... --- ed.]
Posted by: Sonnabend | April 21, 2008 at 06:29 PM
Sick of Jimmy Carter yet?
I am. Jimmy's supposed innocent meeting with Hamas legitimized them in the eyes of the world...as if they need legitimizing; they're a terrorist organization!
Carter is our modern day version of Neville Chamberlain.
Posted by: Cao | April 21, 2008 at 06:42 PM
Barbara, I'm assuming (though I could be wrong) from the tone of your missive that you are a christian. I'll also assume (again, I could be wrong) that you are anti-violence. I will assume also that you are an anti-semite and I don't think I'm wrong here. I submit 8 myths of the Israeli-pali conflict which you and your fellow apologists for the palis subscribe (http://solomonia.com/blog/):
1. Israeli Occupation
Israel is the cause of one of the longest occupations, controlling the life of over 2 million Palestinians.
Not quite. There are longer occupations, such as China in Tibet and Russia in Chechnya. But more importantly it is imperative to restore the correct chronology of events. War was declared upon Israel in response to which Israel waged a defensive war. The occupation was thrust upon Israel. It is a result, not a cause. Israel has already divested itself of most of this occupation: through mutual agreement with the Palestinians in the Oslo Accords and more recently through its unilateral withdrawal from Gaza.
2. Nuclear Israel
Israel is the only country in the region that has internationally unsupervised nuclear weapons
It is unclear what justification exists for Britain or France to possess nuclear weapons. Neither of them is under any threat of obliteration. Such a threat, however, does loom over Israel. On the day that some regional leaders will suspect that Israel has no nuclear capabilities, Israel will "be wiped off the map of the world".
Devotees of such leaders extol the virtues of annihilating the Jews. Israel is permitted to give credence to these openly declarative statements, especially considering the fact that Muslims have massacred more than 10 million Muslims since Israel was established. This is the justification for Israel's nuclear defensive capabilities.
3. Gaza is a Concentration Camp, overseen by Israel
Nonsense and lies. Tens of millions human beings in Africa live under much worse conditions, subjected to famine, disease, and wars. Israel quit Gaza. In response, Hamas, Islamic Jihad and Fatah continued to lob Qassams at Israel.
Israel is no longer in Gaza, nor does it want to control Gaza. Israel continues to provide fuel, electric power and humanitarian assistance to Gazans. Yet Gaza retaliates by sending Qassams into Israel. These missiles are not motivated by a desire for peace or to put an end to the occupation, which no longer exists. The declared purpose is the liquidation of the state of Israel. How exactly would American Democrats react to such consistent attacks targeting kindergartens and hospitals by an organization boasting of a racist or anti-Semitic platform, explicitly declaring its desire to annihilate the United States?
4. Israel practices Apartheid in the west Bank.
When a tidal wave of suicide terrorists threatens a civilian population, Israel has to resort to disagreeable measures. Not all means are justified but it is highly doubtful that any other democratic country would employ any less severe measures.
5. Israel does not accept the rights of refugees, by refusing to accept the right of return of two million Palestinians.
Utter nonsense. Over 40 million people have undergone the experience of population exchange, mostly as a result of wars. There is not one historical precedent that acknowledges a right of return. It is a Palestinian invention. As Palestinians themselves keep admitting, this is their trump card for the destruction of Israel.
True, 650,000 Arabs left or were forced to leave, the Jewish state, after they had declared a war of annihilation upon the newly-born State it. 850,000 Jews left or were forced to leave Arab countries and arrived in Israel, following that same attempted war of annihilation. Of all the refugees at large in the world, only the Palestinians were perpetuated as such. A special UN agency was created, just for them (UNRWA). Only they have been kept on, like an ever- bleeding wound, because Arab countries denied them rights.
6. Israel is founded upon a racist ideology
Israel maintains a regime grounded in the failed Zionist ideology, which is based on racist nationalism that gives rights to only one ethnic or religious group.
Israel is indeed a nation-state, like the Czech Republic, Slovenia, Hungary and many others. Zionism started as a Jewish liberation movement. It is part and parcel of the natural right for self-determination. It is no different from any other right of self-determination, be it Albanian, Romanian or Slovenian.
This charge in and of itself, when it is tossed at Jews and none other but Jews, is inherently racist. The implicit and explicit premise of such an accusation is that Palestinians have national rights but Jews do not. The negation of such rights was the staple of antisemites. It is a tragedy of historical magnitude that "progressive forces" today have come to own this negation of Jewish rights.
As for discrimination: Israel has a large Arab minority. Minorities like this one can be found any place in Europe. Israeli Arabs enjoy a condition of freedom that is much better than Muslims enjoy in neighbouring countries. As a minority they are in a much better position than any other minority in Europe. This is fact, not opinion.
The social discrimination is largely due to the Arab minority's choice to discriminate against their women. Those who have a preference for oppressing members of their society cannot complain when they cannot live according to first world standards. In this respect the Arab minority is no different from the ultra-orthodox Jewish community in Israel. They, like the Haredim, prefer to live by a patriarchal scheme.
A breakthrough will occur when the forces of progress in the world will cease to coddle Muslims as if they were simple-minded children who should be allowed to maintain their inner structures of oppression. The forces of darkness and the sad condition of Muslims continue as long as Israel, and other factors, are blamed.
7. Palestinians are the victims of violence
Israelis claim they suffer from terrorism, but Palestinians are the victims, in a 13:1 ratio.
Lies and demagoguery. Upwards of 1,500 Israelis were killed in terrorist attacks, originating from the occupied territories. About 6,000 Palestinians were killed during the 40 years of occupation, most of whom were terrorists. This is the smallest death toll in histories of conflicts around the world. Much less than the 20,000 Syrians murdered by Assad in 1982, much less than the 10,000 Palestinians killed in 1971 during Black September in Jordan, much less than the number of Kurds killed by Turkey, much less than the 8,000 killed in Srebrenitza at the heart of Europe. Never mind Algeria, Sudan, Afghanistan or Iraq where Muslims have massacred and are still killing, masses of other Muslims.
8. Israel invaded Lebanon twice.
Twice Israel invaded Lebanon and continues to infringe upon Lebanon's aerial space.
Just like that Israel invaded Lebanon, for no reason whatsoever? Lebanon turned into a launching base for hostile assaults against Israel. First it was the Fatah that had turned Lebanon into a protectorate. Now it is Hezbollah, an Iranian terrorist organization which openly declares its goal of destroying Israel, that amasses enough weapons to threaten a country the size of California, and then attacks Israel even though there is no Israeli presence nor Israeli provocation in Lebanon.
Antisemites are not distracted by facts
It is possible and permissible to criticize Israel but key facts must be acknowledged, for example, that Israel recognizes the right of Palestinians for self-determination and statehood. The Arabs, and Palestinians, however, have unfailingly rejected every proposal. They said no to the Peel commission, no to the UN partition plan, no to Barrack's proposals at Camp David, no to Clinton's bridging proposals that offered them a state and a solution for the refugee problem.
Israel even supports the Saudi peace plan, with one caveat: that Palestinian Right of return will take place within the context of a Palestinian state and not for the purpose of liquidating Israel. Whoever supports RoR perpetuates the conflict in general and Palestinian suffering in particular.
These facts have not distracted those who fell into the anti-Israel obsession, just as facts have never dented the will of those who caught the antisemitic bug. But there are those who are open to facts, and those who might be disabused of their antisemitic obsessions. It is therefore worthwhile to re-iterate this simple fact: That the people of Israel is also deserving of independence and freedom, As deserving as any other group that demands self-determination. As deserving as Palestinian claims for self-determination, but alongside Israel, not in place of Israel.
Posted by: GM Roper | April 21, 2008 at 07:36 PM
Wow. Just wow.
I just wandered onto this site today because I was thinking about a poem I used to like "If thou couldst empty all thyself of self." And googling that led me to this post of Kat's
http://www.cathousechat.com/cathouse_chat/2007/02/all_replete_wit.html
And I wanted to post something about that but comments were disabled there, and so I went to her home page but could find no email link. So I started reading the post at the top and got into commenting about that.
Oh by the way, what I wanted to say about the poem, Kat: I think MAYBE Madeleine L'Engle had used that poem in a book entitled "The Love Letters" (recently re-published as "Love Letters"), but I can't be sure because it was so long ago that I read it. I didn't know she'd used a line in A Ring of Endless Light, although I read that too a long time ago. I was just going to ask Kat if she knew about that, but, like I said, couldn't leave a comment for that post or an email link.
Wow, and now I'm an anti-Semite, fake Christian because of my supposed denomination, who would crucify Christ if he came back to earth.
Wow. Just wow. And I haven't even read all the responses. Just too much.
You guys are such a great "advertisement" for Christianity!!!!
I learned a lot of my faith in the Lutheran church. I remember a song we used to always sing: "And they'll know we are Christians by our love, by our love."
Wow. Just wow.
Oh, and no need to worry I'll be reading your blog AGAIN, Miss Kat.
Wandered into the snake pit once. Learned my lesson.
P.S. I just think Carter's an old fool for peace who's a Christian and trying to live that as best he can. And I'm entitled to my opinion and to expressing it, if we're still under the Bill of Rights, as I THINK we are.
P.P.S. For the one bit of the other I read, accusing me of anti-semitism. I have several close relatives who I truly, truly love who are Jewish. You're a creep buddy.
Ba-bye!!!!
Posted by: Barbara | April 22, 2008 at 01:18 AM
Oops, sorry I posted that twice. Computer must be slow tonight. [Fixed. -- ed.]
Once again, as Carroll O'Connor once said, "I think I'm outta here!!!"
Posted by: Barbara | April 22, 2008 at 01:23 AM
From you, that's high praise.
Hey, luvvie..I said Carter was an anti semite.
He is.
You're just a credulous fool.Don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya...
Posted by: Sonnabend | April 22, 2008 at 07:12 AM
Barbara, you do realize that the "some of my closest family/best friends are Jewish" attitude won't wash... After all, you are not addressing the fact of Palestine's lies and murderous behavior towards Israel. In fact, you admit that you won't even look at the arguments against your assertion that the Palestinians are simply poor, oppressed victims.
It seems to me that, when you presuppose Israel's guilt and the Palestinians' "innocence," you are indeed acting in an anti-semetic way, nevermind your protests to the contrary.
Thank you for the additional information on the poem you searched on, at any rate. I do wish you all the best - but that includes opening your eyes to the lies of the PC, "truthy" myth f Palestinian victimhood...
Posted by: Kat | April 22, 2008 at 07:49 AM
Ah, yes, dhimmi Jimmy Carter, the man who made me a Republican.
Kat, thanks for standing up for what is right, and GM Roper, thanks for your factual overview. Also, thanks to the rest of you who understand the facts as they are and who commented.
Admittedly, I do have my own axe to grind here, as my mother is Israeli, and I have a lot of family over there. it is a beautiful country, a technological innovator, and one of the best allies of the United States. I think no other country has supported us as much in U.n> votes, for example. During the Vietnam War, the Israelis stole Soviet missile signals from the Egyptians, and this help save the lives of many American pilots.
As far as commenter "Barbara" is concerned, I am not going to launch into any accusations of prejudice or bigotry. However, I will say that Barbara certainly needs to balance her previous suppositions with historical facts.
Clearly, Hamas and the PA are hostile entities, and keep in writing the destruction of Israel among their goals. These organizations would not hesitate to kill American citizens. Even if Israel were not there, they would still be hostile to the United States, our allies, and all that we stand for.
The Israelis also tried to give a lot of commercial help to the Arabs in Gaza ad Samaria. However, Arafat and his gang of criminals rejected this help. He just stuffed his own pockets with foreign aid (i.e., our tax dollars). I just saw a Joseph Farah article today in which he quotes the PA "Ambassador" to Lebanon. This guy says (in Arabic, of course), that getting their independent state is only a step in a process of wiping out the Jewish entity.
You can read it here:
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=62137
Quo usque tandem . . .
Posted by: Isophorone | April 22, 2008 at 10:03 PM
I find it funny... When Islamic Terrorist supporters think they can gain an advantage they ask WWJD? but they never ask the question "Would Jesus be a homicide bomber"? would Jesus approve of Palestinian methods? I think Jesus would find peace through peace, not by lying not by rioting, not by ANY of the methods the leaders of Hamas, Hezzbollah or ANY Islamic leader.... Name one DECENT leader of any nation or territory of Muslim faith? You can name many of all other religions, name ONE Muslim that has actually made in roads to peace? CAN'T be done. oh unless you are a Muslim and believe Arafat was actually GOOD.
Posted by: Robert | April 23, 2008 at 04:52 AM
I haven't any problem with legitimate criticism of Israel, but you haven't given us much to work with.
Israel is not guiltless in all of this, either.
Nope, we have made our share of mistakes.
They have an occupation of Palestine in which little children are shot and houses (in which people are actually living) are destroyed, daily.
When you phrase it like that it makes it sound really bad, but consider the context. Israel pulled out of Gaza and what happened. The terrorists took our former homes and used them to launch rockets at Israel...daily. Watch this video and tell me what you would do if your children were threatened this way...daily.
Are you telling me that you wouldn't try to protect them, from people whose charter declares that violence is legitimate and call for the destruction of your country.
I've listened to a former soldier in the Israeli army talk about his experiences. He said the occupation makes them into monsters. He said at first, he shot at the hillside carefully, trying not to hurt anyone. Soon, though, he said it was just a daily "game," shooting into the hillside (where PEOPLE live), and it didn't bother him at all.
You know there are a million examples of bad cops, bad soldiers, etc.
Sometimes people get lost. Sometimes they do the wrong thing. It is wrong, it is shameful. I can provide an easy argument to gloss over it, but I won't.
See, the problem with your argument is that you don't provide any context whatsoever. Someone spoonfed you some information and you just regurgitated it.
Israel doesn't behave as china does. Look at what the Russians did to Chechnya and what did the world say...nothing.
Israel has its issues and has made mistakes, but what country hasn't. Overall Israel acts with more restraint than so many others. Just be fair about your criticism.
Posted by: Jack | April 25, 2008 at 12:43 AM